James Randi’s Disjointed Email
Here is the email exchange I had with James Randi regarding the the DogsThatKnowexperiments we’re doing. I recently completed a Podcast offering some commentary on Randi.
| RE: Are Sheldrake’s Claims Truthful?From: Alex Tsakiris To: James Randi Date: May 02 2008 - 3:21pm |
Let me know when you’ve had a chance to digest this.
Alex
_____
From: James Randi On Behalf Of James Randi
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:33 PM
To: ‘Alex Tsakiris’
Subject: RE: Are Sheldrake’s Claims Truthful?
Question: Have you made formal application to the JREF? I have no way of knowing about such matters, because it’s assigned to other persons. DO NOT WRITE ME ABOUT THE CHALLENGE, especially if you’ve not made application. I have nothing to do with the challenge; it’s handled by other persons, and neither of them recognize your name.
James Randi.
From: Alex Tsakiris
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 2:33 PM
To: ‘James Randi‘
Subject: RE: Are Sheldrake’s Claims Truthful?
This entire exchange seems a little disjointed… to summarize:
let me know when/if you accept my offer
let me know if Dr. Clive Wynne is an acceptable independent researcher
Good luck with your busy schedule, your possible new TV show, your trip to the UK, and all else.
Alex
_____
From: James Randi On Behalf Of James Randi
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:48 AM
To: ‘Alex Tsakiris’
Subject: RE: Are Sheldrake’s Claims Truthful?
You appear to think that your needs are uppermost on my schedule. What would give you that impression? Looking into a silly dog claim is among my lowest-priority projects. When I’m prepared to give you some time, I’ll let you know. There are some 40+ persons ahead of you.
James Randi.
From: Alex Tsakiris
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:23 PM
To: ‘James Randi‘
Subject: RE: Are Sheldrake’s Claims Truthful?
Ok, so you’re accepting my offer? Is Dr. Clive Wynne at the University of Florida acceptable to you?
Alex
_____
From: James Randi On Behalf Of James Randi
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:04 AM
To: ‘Alex Tsakiris’
Subject: RE: Are Sheldrake’s Claims Truthful?
I’m going to the UK, where I’ll attempt to confront Sheldrake. Your USA-based notion is a separate matter. What led you to think that I had no interest?
James Randi.
From: Alex Tsakiris
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:49 PM
To: ‘James Randi‘
Subject: RE: Are Sheldrake’s Claims Truthful?
How are you going to, “test Sheldrake’s claims” in the UK? We’re replicating the experiment with DogsThatKnow in the US.
I’m offering you a chance to get behind real research. Isn’t this what you want?
Alex
_____
From: James Randi On Behalf Of James Randi
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:33 AM
To: ‘Alex Tsakiris’
Subject: RE: Are Sheldrake’s Claims Truthful?
I’ll be in the UK soon enough, to test Sheldrake’s claims – in fact, he’s at the top of my list.
You’ll find out when and where, I’m sure, so hustle off to share this hot news with everyone…!
James Randi.
From: Alex Tsakiris
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:07 PM
To: ‘James Randi‘
Subject: Are Sheldrake’s Claims Truthful?
Dear Mr. Randi,
I certainly understand your desire to control the terms under which you offer the Million Dollar Challenge, but real issue is – are Sheldrake’s claims truthful? I’m offering a way to answer the question – without risking your million dollars…
You’ve sought to enhance your reputation by disparaging Dr. Rupert Sheldrake. You’ve ridiculed him with your Pigasus Award, questioned his ethics/competence, and advanced dubious counter-claims against his research. All of this has been done in order to draw attention to you and your position – parapsychology is bunk… telepathy doesn’t exist. Now, I’m offering a way to put your claims to the test at my expense.
I propose you abide by HYPERLINK “http://www.skeptiko.com/blog/?p=7“your earlier offer to appear naked in Piccadilly Circus if research indicates Rupert Sheldrake’s original research was correct. Given the personal attacks you’ve suffered upon Sheldrake, this public humiliation would seem an appropriate penance. And, if you’re worried about cost, I’ll even pay for your airfare to London.
As far as the research that will establish whether the DogsThatKnow phenomena is real, or just wishful thinking on the part of dog owners and psi proponents, we’ll leave the question to independent researchers qualified to answer such questions. Again, this is in line with your own statements about this matter:
“So, it wouldn’t be me doing the test. It would be someone like Chris French or Wiseman, or some other scientist with the proper credentials. Plenty of places could do this sort of thing, and we always, always have it out of house. We don’t do the tests ourselves. We always turn it over to a lab or to an association, organization, college, whatever, who will do the experimentation, the whole run on the thing, and announce the results at the end of it.” (http://www.skeptiko.com/blog/?p=7)
So please, in the interest of science… and truth… do accept my offer.
Alex Tsakiris
_____
From: James Randi
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 2:06 PM
To: ‘Alex Tsakiris’
Subject: RE: Vetting of Clive Wynne
No application, no interest. Goodbye.
James Randi.
From: Alex Tsakiris
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 2:14 PM
To: ‘James Randi‘
Subject: RE: Vetting of Clive Wynne
No… you are going to rely on REAL SCIECNTISITS trained in observing animal behavior. As you stated during our interview, this is superior to tests that you might hobble together.
We don’t want to wind up with another Richard-Wiseman-style botched debunking.
Alex
_____
From: James Randi
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:36 AM
To: ‘Alex Tsakiris’
Subject: RE: Vetting of Clive Wynne
Do we have an application on this claim…?
James Randi.
From: Alex Tsakiris
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 12:39 PM
To: ‘James Randi‘
Cc: ‘Clive Wynne’
Subject: Vetting of Clive Wynne
Let me know when your vetting of Dr. Wynne is complete (please complete this within the next two weeks). We are also in contact with other researchers and plan to form a panel of animal behavior experts. I will advise you as other researchers join the project.
Alex
_____
From: James Randi
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:04 AM
To: ‘Alex Tsakiris’
Cc: ‘John Farrar’
Subject: RE: RESENT… are we in agreement???
My correspondence on behalf of the JREF has ALWAYS been public and open. This need not be re-stated.
Yet another video? This is not evidence, it is selected data. I await a formal, designed, test.
One statement on Dr. Wynne’s page does not make sense: “I don’t other species can be said to be consciousness in the way we are”.
I will have to reach Dr. Wynne for an exchange, before I can comment further, and I’m currently occupied with very serious discussions on other matters, having just returned from the UK, where I’ve been negotiating a contract to present a TV series there in which Dr. Sheldrake will assuredly be asked to participate.
James Randi
James Randi Educational Foundation
201 S.E. 12th Street
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316-1815
USA
From: Alex Tsakiris
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:37 PM
To: ‘James Randi‘
Subject: RESENT… are we in agreement???
BTW a second video has been released: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr3IK0EryqM
===================================
Let’s do it!
Per our conversion during your interview Skeptiko (http://www.skeptiko.com/index.php?id=37), I think we’re in agreement that “testing” of the dog’s telepathic abilities should be done by qualified researchers.
I’ve contacted Dr. Clive Wynne at the University of Flordia (http://www.psych.ufl.edu/~wynne/). He’s an animal behavior expert, runs the Canine Cognition and Behavior Lab in Gainsville…and is self-described “hard-core skeptic”.
Dr. Wynne has published several books on animal behavior, included a skeptical look at animal cognition titled, Do Animals Think? He’s also published in Michael Shermer’s Skeptic magazine as well as many academic journals.
I interviewed Dr. Wynne my Skeptiko show. He was very skeptical (and critical) of Rupert Sheldrake’s experiment. You can listen to the interview here:http://www.skeptiko.com/index.php?id=49.
Will the results of this research with Dr. Wynne be acceptable to you and JREF?
Regards,
Alex Tsakiris
P.S. I would like to make this and future correspondence public.
_____
From: James Randi
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 7:32 AM
To: Alex Tsakiris
Subject:
Apply for the JREF’s million-dollar prize…
May 9th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Actually, it just sounds like Randi is getting old…
May 10th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Alex, have you filled out the form, complied with the entry criteria, and actually applied for the MDC yet?
If not…YAWN. Seriously.
May 10th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Sorry let me past the youtube comment to which I was responding. You said on youtube:
||As Randi has already stated, real research by independant researchers is a superior way to go. I’ve offered Randi an opportunity to participate and have selected a very Skeptical researcher to do the study… we’ll see if James Randi is for real.||
May 10th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
That’s seriously lame, Zep. No one who’s serious believes that real psi could be strong enough to pass that challenge.
May 11th, 2008 at 8:10 am
Alex why did you only approve one of my comments for moderation? (The one where I was simply repeating your youtube comment, and not the one where I was trying to respond.) No interest in discussing this?
Anyway, let me try again. I believe Randi asked you to apply for the challenge. Your next move, if you’re serious about winning his million, is fill out the application. Now that you’ve said your piece about Sheldrake, any plans to the ball really rolling and fill out the application?
May 12th, 2008 at 9:13 am
[…] Read the entire email exchange Download MP3 (15:55min, 7.3MB) […]
May 13th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Alex
I think you are being a bit bloody-minded on this.
Randi has a process for people wanting to accept his challenge. From his perspective, the process is the best way he can manage his time, the testing, and try and ensure a “fair” hearing. Year after year he must get acosted by all sorts of unhinged, tricksters, and self-deceived. Sure, Randi may be short tempered, dismissive, inconsistent old codger in his communications, but you know how easy it is to shoot off an email that is more strongly worded than perhaps you would on later reflection. You will need to work hard not to reflect his attitudes in your communications. Please don’t let this die from personality issues on your or their side. The facts and the processes are what is important if you want to work effectively with skeptics.
The expertise needed by serious para experimenters like Radin speaks to the fact that the average Joe (or Josephine)Randi has to deal with probably no idea how to appropriately design an experiment to test a claim, or interpret the results.
I suggest you apply using this process, and, if you are not interested in the money, waive that clause in the agreement (or change it to handing over a $1 or some other token if you wish to retain the nakedness).
Many of us have experienced this stuff and “know” this stuff is true. We are cheering you on.
Best Wishes
Ralph
“nd you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
May 15th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Yeah, apply for the challenge properly if you think you’ve got a chance. All I get from this email exchange is a whiff of sour grapes and you attempting to shoehorn your somewhat weak methodology onto his existing framework.
Not that it’d make any difference, it’s a totally stupid experiment anyway.
May 15th, 2008 at 11:40 am
But Alex states over and over that he DOESN’T WANT THE MILLION DOLLARS!
Or did you guys not read the post?
He doesn’t want the money, he just wants to test Sheldrake’s claims.
The people who deserve yawns here are the ones who apparently are illiterate.
May 15th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Someone should investigate the mystery of the disappearing million dollars!
May 15th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Looks like two people who won’t give an inch. Randi won’t even talk without an application. Alex won’t turn in an application because he doesn’t want the million dollars. To move forward somebody has to step down, and we all know it won’t be Randi.
Why not apply, get the million, and give it to me?
May 16th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Alex - publishing this tennis-game of emails really is a NON STORY.
Just fill in an application form and TAKE A NUMBER.
It seems like confrontational talk like yours is cheap. The idea that dogs are telepathic seems deeply, deeply implausible but I suppose deserves scientific scrutiny of sorts.
Word to the wise: My dog REX never even saw the hit-and-run driver that removed him from this World (1980) - let alone sensed him telepathically!!!
cheers
AIDAN
May 16th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Helgarde whether Alex wants the money or not is not at issue. Randi offered to let Alex apply for the Randi Challenge. I believe Alex accepted in his press release. The next step is simply fill out the application form and start talking to Randi’s people on designing a protocol. That’s the extent of it.
So, the ball is totally in Alex’s court. He can apply for the standard challenge offered by Randi or not.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:38 am
Randi is right; if you think you are on to something then enter the contest. I think that, regardless of the prize/money, it would show a willingness to lay out your methodology to the scutiny of independant scientists so as to tighten up your protocols.
Many, I’m sure, are unwilling to admit that they might be wrong and their “exeriments” might actually be quite flawed, thereby giving off the desired, but incorrect, results.
Enter the challenge, Alex, and let’s see what you’ve got.