Alex Tsakiris:
So let's get back to the discussion I was having with Dr. Clive Wynne at the University of Florida about Rupert Sheldrake. So once we got past the Journal of Scientific Exploration, I went on to point out that Sheldrake has also published his research in Anthrozoös.

Dr. Clive Wynne:
Yeah well that's not, that doesn't publish original... I mean I'm surprised. That... Anthrozoös is a journal of papers on the relationship between people and animals, not on actual experimental tests on animals.

Alex Tsakiris:
Well it turns out he's right about the first part of that but not the second. Anthrozoös, from their website, is “the official journal for the International Society for Anthrozoology, a vital forum for academic dialog on human animal relations, a quarter peer reviewed journal, has enjoyed a distinguished history, is a pioneer in the field since it's launch in 1987.” And if you peruse through the table of contents like I did you'll see that, every issue that I looked at had at least one experiment published on, on actual research observations of animals and / or people. So it looks to me like the right journal!

Dr. Clive Wynne:
Well yeah but, I don't want to seem like a science snob about this but, you know, peer review means something. It means that people who carry out... if you published in, you know there's a journal called Animal Behavior or there, you know a whole... Journal of Animal Cognition, the editors of those journals would send the papers out to people who carry out similar experiments and have, have some expertise in that kind of thing. And Sheldrake hasn't submitted a paper, hasn't published a paper in that kind of a journal on this kind of stuff.

Alex Tsakiris:
Well, it turns out that that's not quite accurate either. See, one of the reviewers on that paper in Anthrozoös was a gentleman named Dr. Marc Bekoff, Professor Emeritus in Biology, University of Colorado, co-founder with Jane Goodall of Ethologists for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, and a very, very highly regarded, well respected researcher in this field. So he's one of the referees on this paper. Let's hear what he has to say.

Dr. Marc Bekoff:
You know people can be skeptical, but once again you've got to be consistent. You know he put a paper into a professional referee journal, a bunch of referees read it and they published, and then it was published. I mean, you just, you can't play, you can't play the fiddle from both ends, that's basically what it comes down to. If I publish a paper in a peer reviewed scientific journal, then people will say, “Okay I may not agree with some of what you wrote but at least it was scrutinized by your colleagues”. Well that's what Rupert did with a couple of his papers, especially the one that I know the best, the one that was in Anthrozoös, and it was published. And although people read it and thought... you know the skeptics thought this is bullshit you know this can't be, my response was well wait a minute, then why isn't your work bullshit too?

Alex Tsakiris:
Well I guess the only appropriate response to that is, iunno!

Stay with us, next up I'll update you on our research projects. Now those of you who have been with Skeptiko for a while know that this show isn't just about talking to skeptics and talking to researchers, it's also about promoting more research into some of the controversial areas of human consciousness that we've been talking about. You know when you flip on the TV you see a slew of programs on psychics and mediums, but how do you know if any of that stuff is real? Has anyone investigated scientifically? Same goes for telepathy. Lots of claims, a lot of interest, not so much science. And we at Skeptiko would like to see more, and that's why we're funding research, that's why we're broadcasting that research that is being done, and that's why we're trying to build a community around these ideas.

Now when I started Skeptiko about a year ago, I didn't really have much of a plan. I just wanted to get a little bit closer to the truth than I could just by reading and listening to interviews. But I also had a sense that there was something happening out there, a real shift in science's understanding of human consciousness, and that the research that was coming through, on near death experience, on mediums, on remote viewing and on other phenomenon, was starting to take some real roots. But I also noticed that at the same time, that same research was scaring the heck out of a lot of folks, and that the most radical reaction to this was in the skeptical community. It was growing at the same time that this research is taking roots. Now it's kind of funny talking about skeptics and the skeptical community because, on the one hand, it's extremely frustrating to talk to researchers and hear over and over again about the chilling effect that dogmatic skeptics have had on the research, on their funding, and even on their academic career.

But on the other hand, I'm reminded of this line from this movie I just saw, you know. The movie is called 'The Great Debaters' and it's got Denzel Washington in it and he's coaching this team of small school college debaters who are trying to overcome the impossible odds they face. Well anyways, he has this mantra in the movie that they have to repeat over and over again. He says “Who's your opponent?” And they respond back “He does not exist!” And he says “Why doesn't he exist?” And they say “Because he is the mere dissenting voice of the truth I speak.” And I guess that's sometimes how I feel about the skeptical community. They're not my opponent, I'm seeking the truth. And in a way, their opposition, even their hypocrisy and their dogmatism, just helps illuminate the path towards the truth. But besides, there's a lot about the skeptical community that's good, hey they're smart, they're willing to go against the flow, right? I mean they're mainly atheists operating in a very Christian western world, and they're certainly focused on a lot of the right issues. But I've also come to realize, that the skeptical community does have to be challenged and held accountable for some of the outrageous things that they say and do.

And here's where I'm asking for your help, your participation. You know one of my biggest frustrations during the last year, has been talking to very bright, very competent researchers, who've resigned themselves to the position of, just not engaging with skeptics, not talking to them, not responding to them. They just won't. At first I was really put off by this, I mean if you're right, you should stand up and defend yourself. But over the last year I've come to appreciate just how wearying it can be to deal with the unending nonsense that some of these skeptics can generate. And any of you who've peeked into some of the skeptical forums out there know what I mean. So I understand where some of these researchers are coming from. They just can't respond to the skeptical nonsense and still be effective at what they're doing. So, here's where we can all work together and make a difference, and make it better. You know that the skeptical community is quite large, and growing. And they're well organized and they're led by some very bright, very media savvy folks. But you know really there's a lot more folks like you and I. Folks who'd like to see more open minded scientific answers to the big questions in life like, who are we and what happens after we die. There's more of us than there are hardcore atheist skeptics. What we lack is a community, a community that brings us together and focuses our efforts, our energies, our talents. Now I'm not talking about just a Skeptiko community. I'm talking about figuring out how we can link together the efforts of so many of us. All of us who are willing to stand up to those who on the flimsiest of evidence say “It can't be true” or more often “I wouldn't believe it even if it was true!” Because if enough of us stand together, we really can change the kind of science that gets done, and that might just change the world a little bit!

Hey wasn't I supposed to be talking about research projects? Oh yeah that's it. Okay, well as you know we're engaged currently in two research projects. One is a replication of Rupert Sheldrake's dogs that know when their owners are coming home. And I have been actively for the last few months seeking out good dog participants, and I want to let you know how difficult this is. It's a little wake up call in terms of ah, just how hard it is to help facilitate one of these research projects. It must be harder to do them! But, you know, finding the right people, and the people who have the time to do it, are willing to do it, and then on top of that have the computer setup and the ability to participate in this, has been somewhat of a challenge. But fortunately we do have a couple of people who are entering trials. I don't want to say too much, because I've said that for the last couple of months and I still don't have any, any real, good, solid candidates that we can go forward with. I've also spoken with several researchers who might be interested in picking up this research, once we have qualified our, our participants. So that process is moving along, and I'll have more to tell you as we go along. And you'll also notice that I'm focusing quite a few shows on trying to educate myself, and at the same time educate all of us who are listening, in just what it's going to take to make that research meaningful, effective, and fit into the larger body of knowledge that we have about animal behavior.

Now the second area of research that we are engaging in, is if you've listened to the last few shows you know, the medium demonstration that we're doing over at the folks at The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe. Now I've had a little bit of contact with Sr. Steve Novella. He's extremely busy, as those of you who listen to his show know. He's actually started another podcast and a blog, so he's got a lot going on. But I did get in, ah just a short message from him real briefly, and they definitely want to go forward with this. So that's great. And I've also contacted Dr. Julie Bushell formally at the University of Arizona who did a lot of the research with Gary Schwartz on mediums, and she's going to be consulting with us and consulting with the project, so that we do an experiment that is – and again we're not doing an experiment we're doing a demonstration – but that the demonstration is as good as we can make it in keeping with the former research that's been done on that. So I think that's going to turn into a very, very interesting demonstration. So please stick around and stay with us for that as well.

Well that's going to about do it for today on Skeptiko. Please let me hear from you. I'm very interested in your ideas and how we can build a stronger, better community, and I'm open to any suggestions you might have. You can always reach me, go to the Skeptiko website, s k e p t i k o. My email is there, it's real simple, it's alex@skeptiko.com, I'd love to hear from you. Check out our forums, we can also start a thread on there and chat a little bit about that. Keep in touch, and until next time, bye for now.